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#1 2010-10-07 16:12:46

missbomba
Bdit nwllf
Registered: 2010-09-05
Posts: 14

ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

hey hey
i just would like anyone to explain to me something that i found completely opposite from what i believe in...
is it true that islam/muslims believe that only they will be able to go to heaven after they die?? i mean do really believe that all other ppl, even if they was good, or they was behaving better than some muslims, but they was non-muslims, means that they deserve doing to hell??????? blink

im asking because, i respect islam even if its not my religion, but when i heard this opinion, it really made me upset that muslims think in this way, hope im wrong ... or i misuderstood...

from my point of view, if there is 1 god, and the god loves ppl and is fair, then we r all equal in his eyes, and there will be no discrimination xD big_smile

well ill be thankful if someone will answer this post wink

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2010-10-07 16:12:46

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#2 2010-10-07 23:03:50

Paperbird
Mmalin ddar
From: Asilah / Kazanegra
Registered: 2009-05-15
Posts: 2007
Website

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

In the name of Allah, & all thank & glory be to him, & peace be upon his prophet...& then :

Dear asker,

"muslim" is not a race, nor a genre, "muslim" is a practice, i can be a muslim not by being born to muslim parents, but by submitting (islam means submission) & responding to the call, to what Allah commanded & Mohammad confirmed.

" Mohammad is no more than an apostle: many were the apostles that passed away before him " [Quran:3-144]

" Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him " [Quran:5-75]

Prophets through history from Adam to Mohammad carried the same message: worship the one & only creator of the universe, associate no one & nothing with him, pray , give charity, be peaceful & helpful to people.
Hence, the muslims are the ones that do these stuff, not the ones who live in north Africa, middle east & south-eastern Asia. one who rejects those commandments, means he's disobeying his creator, therefore i believe going to hell is fair & expected result. that's why the message is called "submission" (Islam), submit = get the satisfaction of the Lord = good reward ----> it is that simple, there's no such thing as "good people go to hell", how can someone be good while he's not submitting !!


For sure the Lord is fair, but your theory about being all equal in his eyes....does not seem logical to me:

" Is one who worships devoutly during the hour of the night prostrating himself or standing (in adoration), who takes heed of the Hereafter, and who places his hope in the Mercy of his Lord - (like one who does not)? Say: are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition " [Quran:39-9]

" Allah will rise up, to (suitable) ranks (and degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted (mystic) Knowledge. And Allah is well- acquainted with all ye do " [Quran:58-11]

" O people, your Lord is one, & your father (Adam) is one, & no Arab has a favour over a foreign, nor a foreign over an Arab, nor a white over a red (black/dark skinned) nor a red over a white, exept in bewaring/fearing of Allah " [Hadeeth of Mohammad]

We're equal in rights & duties, but we can never be equal in deeds.

missbomba wrote:

but when i heard this opinion, it really made me upset that muslims think in this way,

That is not an opinion, nor we invented that way of thinking, it's a fact that is told to us, sth that will happen & we're being told & warned about. in another word: a distiny of Allah that we have no authority over.

missbomba wrote:

hope im wrong ... or i misuderstood...

Islam is always misunderstood, especially with the attacks from western media.
Watch the video in this thread

Note : Jews say/believe no one shall enter heaven exept chosen people, & Christians say/believe no one shall be saved if he does not accept Christ as Lord, so what's the difference if Muslims say/believe no one shall go to heaven if he does not submit to Allah ?

Peace be with you.


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#3 2010-10-08 23:52:02

missbomba
Bdit nwllf
Registered: 2010-09-05
Posts: 14

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

thank you for the reply Paperbird

Note : Jews say/believe no one shall enter heaven exept chosen people, & Christians say/believe no one shall be saved if he does not accept Christ as Lord, so what's the difference if Muslims say/believe no one shall go to heaven if he does not submit to Allah ?

Well i think that the difference exists as bible mentions equality:

(Acts 10:34-35) At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial,  but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him. . .

[ Matthew 20:16] So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.





However my point is that, let's imagine small children or people who never heard about islam or even christianity like those living in tribes eg. amazon regions, people who believe in ghosts, or other spiritual powers... just think about how many people have never even been introduced to other religion, or those who lived before christianity, before islam... what happens to them if they die?? shall they just go to hell, or stop existing or what??

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#4 2010-10-09 00:07:12

missbomba
Bdit nwllf
Registered: 2010-09-05
Posts: 14

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

thx for the link, its interesting video but still doesn't help me ...   i know quite a lot about islam as i used to read about it in general to get my own opinion and not feel kind of fooled by the media, however as i said in some cases islam isn't fair from my point of view..

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#5 2010-10-09 01:17:43

Paperbird
Mmalin ddar
From: Asilah / Kazanegra
Registered: 2009-05-15
Posts: 2007
Website

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

missbomba wrote:

(Acts 10:34-35)

Peter's opinion is that man who fears God & works righteousness is aceptable to him, i still see no euquality here, as Peter is somehow showing that one who does not work righteousness is not acceptable to God. & that makes a perfect sense, see...i told you we can never be equal in deeds, my deeds cannot be the same as yours, one of us has gotta be better than the other (in deeds).

missbomba wrote:

[ Matthew 20:16]

I didn't get the verse clearly, but it says "few chosen", if there's equality & God is not partial, then why few & not all ?


missbomba wrote:

let's imagine small children

Children are exonerated

missbomba wrote:

people who never heard about islam or even christianity like those living in tribes [...] people have never even been introduced to other religion

" On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns " [Quran:2-286]

" Every new born is born with the instinct, but it's his parents that are responsible for making him a Christian, a Jew or a Magian " [Hadeeth]

missbomba wrote:

or those who lived before christianity, before islam... what happens to them if they die?? shall they just go to hell, or stop existing or what??

So is this why Islam is not fair to you ? it's not enough reason, because Allah is much fair than to send people to hell for not following a message that were not sent yet in their lifetime.

BUT,

Those who lived before Mohamad had Jesus, before Jesus they had Zecharia & John, & before those they had Melachi, Habakok, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isiah...& who lived before these prophets had David & Solomon, & who lived before them had Moses & Harun, Jethro, Job, Joseph, Jacob, Isaac, Ishmail, Abraham Lot, & before they had Shelah & Eber, & before Noah & Enoch, & who lived before Enoch had Adam....(peace be upon all of them).
In a short word, people are ought to submit to the Lord according to what the messengers teach.
Before the prophethood of Mohammad for example, all those who truly followed Jesus, are concidered submitters & had died on the right thing. submit = good reward, disobey = bad reward, i don't think there's more fairness than this.
I'd quote to you this once again:
" On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns " [Quran:2-286]
How is this not fair ?


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#6 2010-10-10 13:31:42

missbomba
Bdit nwllf
Registered: 2010-09-05
Posts: 14

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

It's easy to keep quoting verses of Quaran, Bible or Torah to backup ur point, but if u just stop doing it for 5 minutes and start thinking in simple way, u'll see that its more complicated, i understand 'submission' as ur argument, however in real life it doesn't go like this; people raised in jewish or christian countries, tought their parent's and grandparent's religion from centuries and living in good way  ('submitting' god's words) cannot be treated by Allah (imaginning that islam is right religion for now) as sinners, only bacause they didn't even hear about islam or they don't know what it means.
I have personally met muslims saying they believe, but not praying or doing many dirty stuff, this kind of people are everyhere, but i have also seen christian people trying to live as the god told them, who had strong faith...

So whatever religion is true, i still think everyone desrves to be treated in same way.

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#7 2010-10-10 15:51:29

Paperbird
Mmalin ddar
From: Asilah / Kazanegra
Registered: 2009-05-15
Posts: 2007
Website

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

missbomba wrote:

people raised in jewish or christian countries, tought their parent's and grandparent's religion from centuries and living in good way  ('submitting' god's words) cannot be treated by Allah (imaginning that islam is right religion for now) as sinners, only bacause they didn't even hear about islam or they don't know what it means.

you still insist that Allah can punish people for things they didn't do. well...no, not "only because they didn't hear about Islam", everybody hears about Islam now. the worst that knows nothing does at least know that Muslims "allegedly" destroyed 2 towers in USA.
I don't think it's unfair that Allah treat as sinners those who hear of his religion but refuse to learn it & follow it. (this is regardless Allah is a true Lord or just imaginary).

Do not concider this a Quranic quote, concider it a historical text:
" and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say: We are Christians; because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth, they pray: Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses; What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?
And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire " [Quran:5 - 82, 86]


missbomba wrote:

I have personally met muslims saying they believe, but not praying or doing many dirty stuff,

Nobody said all so called Muslims will go to heaven ! & if u remember from the video i showed u last time, that Yusha guy was brought to Islam by a muslim drug dealer.

missbomba wrote:

but i have also seen christian people trying to live as the god told them, who had strong faith...

& this is one of them
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/vid … 7177048709

missbomba wrote:

i still think everyone desrves to be treated in same way.

Define "same way", because as far as i know, everybody is treated by Allah in the same way.


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#8 2010-10-10 17:41:08

missbomba
Bdit nwllf
Registered: 2010-09-05
Posts: 14

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

& this is one of them
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/vid … 7177048709

she's clearly christian!! trying to explain americans that muslims are same as them, they aren't terrirists.. she read about the quaran to prepare her speech for sure, will she 'burn in hell' because even though surely she has heard a lot about islam she rejects it?? well don't tell me that she might convert please xD

i still can't get a rid of feeling that ur allah is god that makes ppl scared, that ur god is kinda cruel (hmm sorry for the expression)
christians though believe that their god is forgiving, understanding as jesus was teaching them about god's love towards humanity :S

well i see wewill not compromise in this case at all :S anyway thx a lot for ur replies xxx

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#9 2010-10-10 22:51:11

Paperbird
Mmalin ddar
From: Asilah / Kazanegra
Registered: 2009-05-15
Posts: 2007
Website

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

First i'm sorry for typing too much & leavin u too much to read & respond to, i'll try to be short...

missbomba wrote:

well i see wewill not compromise in this case at all :S

Where & when have religious debates ever compromised !

missbomba wrote:

will she 'burn in hell' because even though surely she has heard a lot about islam she rejects it??

We don't really decide who goes to heaven & who goes to hell. i think you agree.

missbomba wrote:

well don't tell me that she might convert please xD

From my knowledge of converts, none of them ever defended Islam publicly, i.e those who do so never convert to Islam. & again i don't think i have the right to decide.

missbomba wrote:

i still can't get a rid of feeling that ur allah is god that makes ppl scared, that ur god is kinda cruel
christians though believe that their god is forgiving, understanding

I once read a comment on Yahoo answers that frustrated me, it said: "Jesus is merciful & forgiving, unlike Allah".
just who said muslims don't believe Allah is forgiving & understanding ?!!

missbomba wrote:

(hmm sorry for the expression)

I'm not really the one u should apologize to.


Missbomba, u mentioned previously that u've read about Islam in general, what about the Quran ? have u given it a chance ? not reading about it, but readin it itself. u r accusing Allah of many bad (& wrong) things, well...read what he's saying to humanity in order to either change your mind or be more certain of what u think.

" Quran is the book that u'll need to read anyway, even if u're willing to fight Islam, u'll have to read it to do so " - Ahmed Deedat.
In a youtube video, a Christian guy was telling people to read the Quran in order to be able to debate with muslims, somebody commented on the video : " i don't need to read the Quran, what about 9/11 ? isn't it enough ?" <--- don't be this type of people missB.


Peace be with you.


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#10 2010-10-11 00:46:05

achminfar9
Mmalin ddar
From: unci maka
Registered: 2009-04-10
Posts: 1352

Re: ques. to muslims : AFTER DEATH LIFE

sorry missbomba i disagree with you...i think most christians that you ask believe that non-christian believers in (the) a higher power through another religion will not go to their version of the afterlife...the christians i have spoken with do NOT believe that muslims, jews, or believers in any other faith will go their heaven-- here are some verses from the Bible that corroborate this:

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son" (John 3:18 NIV)

"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)


so: i do not think you can in all fairness make the argument that christians are any more tolerant than muslims toward people of other religions.


HOWEVER!!!!, though you lost out on jesus and a whole bunch of christians, on the PLUS side, **achminfar9** THINKS maybe that he can agree with your pretty basic theory that 'everyone should be treated in the same way' and encourages you to recognize that perhaps Allah, G-d, or whatever you want to call your higher power, probably agrees with you as well and is following the same policy, dependent, of course, on each everyone's actions, deeds, and choices, examined on a case-by-case basis....

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